It appears that county representatives are either unwilling or unable to discontinue Surf Air's use of the airport, even though the airport was never designed for this type or quantity of service. Since the representatives are incapable or addressing the community's needs, they should be voted out or removed from office and replaced by individuals capable of addressing the issue. Action, be it vote or litigation, should be undertaken to remove from office the team that continues to support this travesty.

@member

How on earth do you hear any surf air planes way over in west Atherton? You must have amazing hearing. You should re-read the article. Any way here it is again

John Nibbelin, a chief deputy county counsel for San Mateo County, said that the Federal Aviation Administration restricts what the county can do with the airport. "This is an area that's highly regulated by the federal government," he said. "We're doing the very best we can to assure people's rights are protected.

Calling for county sups to be voted out of office due to Surf Air, is misguided at best. Surf Air is reducing the number of flights and is already flight 50% less over the area in question.

So are you just yelling at a cloud? Time to stop saying no one is doing anything, sounds like they are.

Memeber:

they are "incapable" of stopping Surfair from using San Carlos because the county has taken federal funds for the airport. The FAA will NOT allow them to discriminate. This has been repeatedly stated and reported. What is so hard to understand about this? The Supes aren't "doing anything" because they CAN'T.

Listen, I know at least 10 people here in Atherton and many more in Palo Alto and Menlo Park that use this Airport frequently. A lot of people in this community own or fly private planes and having an Airport so close is a god send.

This is a wealthy area and I know a ton of residents that are corporate executives that use this airport to conduct business as well.

As to getting a quieter airplane, Surf Air has pre-ordered 50 more Pilatus PC-12,planes. The design and configuration of the plane fits their needs perfectly. They will not be changing planes. Going to a 5 blade prop will make little to no difference.
Someone brought up some over flights are quieter than others, and not just from gear and flaps configuration. I have noticed the same thing. There is something about how the plane is flown that makes it a lot quieter. I suggest Surf Air discuss w/ their training pilots what causes this.

Also the IFR flight path has a width tolerance to it. If they would use the this width to stagger the flights laterally it would not get rid of the problem but every 500' lateral approach spread helps.

To put this in perspective, Their were approx. 150 people at the meeting last night. Their is a petition that has been signed by close to 1,000 people. There were approx. 160 people at the last meeting, many of the same but many additional people.

If 150 people take the time out of their day to show up at a meeting, many more are bothered but couldn't make the meeting. If 1,000 are willing to go to the trouble and exposure to sign a petition, many more are bothered but wouldn't sign a petition. I think it's safe to say there are thousands that are bothered by Surf Air.

I hope the County reps and Surf Air understand the magnitude of the problem beyond the few who show up at a meeting.

My feeling is this problem will not go away and may result in Litigation based on the number of people bothered. Surf Air and the County would be well served to find a more effective solution that works besides the Bay VFR approach. Litigation may spook investors and so on.

Finally a couple of people at the meeting, one girl in particular said she worked at Facebook and based on her expertise the study that has been commissioned is flawed for several reasons that made sense. Add to that the moderator not knowing the status of the surveys (sent)? out, how many, and to whom.

More work needs to be done.

The facts are that "Aircraft noise level is about 4 dB(A) less than
with the original metal propeller"

Web Link

A 4dB(A) noise reduction is actually a quite noticeable improvement.

Three things could significantly reduce SurfAir's ground noise impact:

1 - Use only aircraft equipped with 5 bladed propellers

2 - be more aggressive in horizontal disbursements

3 - have every pilot employ best practices regarding delaying flap and lending gear extension and in flying at lower speeds when below 5000 ft.. Some SurfAir flights are barely noticeable because those particular pilots employ these techniques.

" I think it's safe to say there are thousands that are bothered by Surf Air. "

Out of hundreds of thousands if not a million people effected by the noise that don't care. This small entitled minority wants to dictate to a majority of people how it should be. Sorry, not buying it.

There are people that work night and midnight shifts that must sleep during the day. I did for years. I didn't demand my neighbors change how they ran their lives or businesses so I could have peace and quiet while I slept during the day. No, I put in ear plugs and went to sleep. But then I didn't feel entitled. I just dealt with it which is what this little minority needs to do. Get over yourselves and deal with it.

Three surface jets just flew over here while I was eating breakfast where I live on the Atherton border. So yes Surf Air does fly directly over Atherton. I ID each plane with the flightradar24 phone app, and then complain about the noisy ones which is always Surfair with the app called stop jetnoise.net. Yes San Carlos airport has been a nice resource for small plane pilots but Surf air has taken advantage of this resource in a way that is causing a lot of noise pollution for a lot of people for the benefit of a few people. That is why we are angry. We bought homes here because it was fairly quiet. If San Carlos airport wants to survive, they will need to work with the feds to come up with some restrictions on high volume commercial flights... period.

It's unfortunate for all involved,

Surf Air which has the legal right to fly into San Carlos but is spending more time, money and other resources defending it and it has to be cutting in to their bottom line.

There is also a safety factor attached including the loss of focus and concentration on the operations, training department, personal, and the pilots who are spending time, mental focus and energy, trying to 2nd guess the least problematic flights and trying to thread the needle instead of a simple constant flight path, approach and landing into San Carlos.

Anytime a pilot has to concentrate on one part of his flight, part of his attention is taken away (as slight as it may be) from another part of his operation.

The County Representatives and staff, time, and resources that could be spent improving community relations and resources on improvement projects.

The Airport that wastes vast amounts of time. From the management down to tower and ground operations. Time away from normal focus on regular operations, Something else is losing attention and my guess is it costs money to put in extra time and resources.

Their have been many attempts to modify the negative and real effects of people on the ground. This has never been a problem caused by San Carlos Airport. It's caused by SurfAir's operations and the type of plane they fly along with the effects of a regular flight schedule. People learn to anticipate the flights and I believe as many people have stated it does effect their physical and mental health.

Modifying approaches, Changing props, Dropping gear later, Proper training on noise reduction approaches all help depending on where you live.

Unfortunately the people whose homes are at the tip of the spear will never under any modifications get relief.

They have lost peace of mind, suffered negative health effects, and loss of their homes' value.

There is no win win here. It may have to be settled in court.

Remove SurfAir from KSQL or prepare for continued negative attention and the eventual demise of the airport many of us enjoy for personal and light commercial use.

Whoever chose the PC12 for SA lacks common sense and should be fired. Perhaps they would have noted that several peninsula towns have banned gas powered blowers.

ET:

The PC12 was chosen for safety. It's the safest single engine aircraft in the world. Given the county just took more funds from the FAA any predictions of the imminent demise of SQL are very premature.

On the point of executives of atherton using airport.
A lot of people in Atherton are using guns, let's allow hunting within city limits.
Lot of ppl have fast cars , let's allow car racing.
I like smoking, let's allow smoking.

YOUR FREEDOM ENDS WHEN IT IMPACTS OTHERS. DONT LIKE IT MOVE TO MONTANA.

maxxer:

not when it effects some tiny little minority.

A business jet flew over Menlo Park/Community Center on apparent long final for San Carlos at, I’m guessing, under 1,500 feet with the associated very loud high pitch turbine noise. In the past, this might have gone unnoticed, but given Surf Air, a neighbor I was with shook his head and said that we really needed to shut down the local airports these planes fly out of.

I’m a commercial/instrument pilot out of Palo Alto. I follow all the noise abatement policies and work hard to maintain goodwill in our community. These flights are destroying that goodwill. Keep this up and I guarantee community pressure to close these local airports will increase. My neighbors don’t know the difference between KSQL, KPAO, a Cessna 152 or a Pilatus and we’re all getting tarred with the same brush. I frankly don’t blame them.

What was the date and time of the flight so that the course and altitude can be verified?

" I frankly don’t blame them. "

You should. You should use your knowledge and experience as a pilot to inform those that are not as to the differences. I certainly do.

Not sure it matters, but the overflight occurred on October 25, 2015 at 11:02am one block from Burgess. Jet was on long final to KSQL descending through 1,400ft, origin KSBA. Sounded like a Blue Angel going over. I filed a report to the local noise monitors, who tracked the aircraft but could only get a transponder code from the files. And there it ended.

Understand, while this was a particularly egregious event (IMO), my main concern is the bad will it's generating in the community toward local airports, not the fact that I had to stop the conversation with my neighbor because of the noise and then try to explain why this wasn't Surf Air or the little one-bangers coming out of KPAO.

AsI patiently try to explain the details of the "good" guys and the "bad" guys, eyes quickly glaze over. All they know is that there are planes up there making lots of noise either coming from or going to these little local airports, which they understand are being maintained for the benefit of the rich, since only the rich can afford to be a pilot.

Would it be better if every citizen took a detailed interest in every issue? Yes. But the reality is that most don't have the time to dig in and educate themselves. Given that reality, the aviation community is having a goodwill hole dug for us by Surf Air that I believe is creating a Santa Monica-style "shut them down" situation here on the peninsula.

Or heaven forbid that the mixing of regular turbine flights with slow speed GA in the VFR corridor results in a mid-air with wreckage strewn across AP-MP-Atherton-RC. Think mobs with pitchforks and torches.

"Or heaven forbid that the mixing of regular turbine flights with slow speed GA in the VFR corridor results in a mid-air with wreckage strewn across AP-MP-Atherton-RC."

That's a bit histrionic wouldn't you say. Ever flown in to Monterrey? They mix jet, turboprop and piston driven singles. I haven't heard of any mid-air collisions there. Nor at Santa Barbara. I've flown into both. The most uncomfortable thing that ever happened to me was Monterrey tower asking me to maintain as much speed as possible as there was a jet traffic behind me. I descended faster than normal, but no big deal. I was on the ground and already taxiing for the terminal before the jet touched down.

With comments like yours above you just feed into the "Surfair bad" narrative.

This will be my last post as I have no interest in a blog war.

I was driving to work September 1978 in San Diego and saw a tall smoke cloud coming from the Normal Heights area. Pacific Southwest Airlines 182 had collided with a Cessna 172 practicing instrument approaches out of KMYF, the field I flew out of at the time. The body of one of the flyers in the C-172 came down through the roof of my then-girlfriend's neighbor's house. Needless to say she never flew with me again.

Even though the cause of the crash was the PSA crew's losing sight of the C-172 after telling the controller "traffic in sight", the news media focused on these pesky little airplanes running into the big airliners.

Shortly afterwards the airspace in San Diego got locked down with high speed turbine segregated from GA traffic. Those of us in the little planes got stuffed into corridors making for fun times on high traffic days.

So I don't need a lecture on mixing high speed turbine and GA piston traffic. And if I'm not able to communicate my point, then I apologize. With that, have a good holidays. From this point out you'll be talking to yourself.

How open minded of you MP Pilot. The incident and the response to it were part of my law enforcement training in the early 80's. There hasn't been one since. Has there? Oh, I forgot, you don't want to have a conversation.

Yup. Pops was a firefighter in one of the towns bordering SFO - they trained for that also.

MP Pilot's example is from 38 years ago. Gosh-oh-golly, has much changed in the last 38 years?

"Gosh-oh-golly, has much changed in the last 38 years?"

ya think?

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