According to the U.S. National Bureau of Economic Research (the official arbiter of U.S. recessions) the US recession began in December 2007 and ended in June 2009, five months after President Obama's first election.

While thankful, I don't know a single economist who would characterize this as a robust recovery and as you noted, wage growth is negative. Usually the steeper the recession - and this one was VERY steep - nearly free fall - the faster and more dramatic the recovery. Not so this time.

The reason the current recovery has been so anemic is that Obama has nearly doubled the national debt, and for every dollar the George W. Bush created in debt, Obama has doubled down. As president Obama has heaped regulations upon the American economy making it far more difficult for U.S. companies to compete on the international front. Additionally under Obama the United States has the highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Hopefully, the next president will lower the corporate tax rate and corporations will repatriate the hundreds of billions of dollars sitting off shore.

>>>>Additionally under Obama the United States has the highest corporate tax rate in the world.

Sure. But an MUCH lower effective tax rate. Americans agree: "the University of Michigan points to a recent survey finding that only 9% of respondents thought corporations paid too much in taxes, while 67% thought they paid too little."


Anemic? Bush gave us consecutive months of job losses exceeding 750,000 jobs. Obama gave us 65 months of private sector job growth.

Web Link

Bush's party has not proposed one jobs bill that isn't a hidden tax cut for billionaires or destroy regulations that harm our air and water.

Pretty darn good for a socialist-fascist radical Christian-Muslim Kenyen who has had zero help from Bush's party to clean up Bush's disaster.

It's like someone staying in your home, making a huge mess and not even trying to correct the problem. Never invite them back.

"Get a Clue" claims: "Additionally under Obama the United States has the highest corporate tax rate in the world.".

Well, it was actually under the Reagan presidency that the present marginal rates were adopted. Mr Obama proposed reducing those rates in his last budget. Ultimately, of course, Congress is responsible for budgets and their consequences.

Nor do I think the facts sustain the other assertions, either.

Regarding jobs, Rick Santorum, by my count was the only Republican to address jobs when he talked about manufacturing jobs, though I should do a search of the transcripts. I was a a little out of it after the second debate.

Listening to Armstrong & Getty today - I agree, Fox had the worst hosts ever. They took fully 1/3rd of the speaking time. Ugh! They kept going after Trump. And that awkward 10 minutes after Bill O'Rielly threw the show to them - was horrid!

Michael Savage agrees, the Fox hosts were obviously instructed to go only after Donald Trump.

Winners: Trump. Santorum in the 1st round. I like Christie.

Losers: Everyone else in the 1st round, Curly Paul(MS nickname for Rand) & Bush were awful.

I really wish they talked about jobs.

Thank heavens there are no more Fox debates.

Forget about Christie. Just another liar. From transcripts "I was appointed U.S. attorney by President Bush on September 10th, 2001"

Except it was months later. Like anyone can forget where they were that day?

Why do men lie about everything? Why do they lie about something so stupid? So easy to disprove?

Christie is just another fat liar. The next debate will be smaller.

It is also obvious upon review that Fox is in the bag for the Bushes.

"Why do men lie about everything?" Why does Hilary (a woman) lie about everything? "Why do they lie about something so stupid?" Why does Hilary (a woman) lie about things that are so stupid? "So easy to disprove?" Why does Hilary(a woman) lie about things so easy to disprove?

"Christie is just another fat liar." Hilary is just another fat liar.

In case you haven't figured it out yet not all men are liars, but pretty much all politicians are. Be they republican or democrat. Opposite sides of the same corrupt coin.

Mr. Voter - well, then they need better mouth control. Carly, too.

Web Link

Mr. Trump needs to hire better people to do clever things like that.

Estella:

you just proved my point.

Perhaps.

It was still quite dumb for so-called conservatives to say such flattering things about H R Clinton. Either one of them

They probably blackmailed the conservatives, and the fix is in.

And I like Donald Trump so much more than the rest.

"And I like Donald Trump so much more than the rest."

of course you do.

The number of people not in the labor force reached another record high in July, according to new jobs data released Friday by the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS). The BLS reports that 93,770,000 people (16 and older) were neither employed last month nor had made specific efforts to find work in the prior four weeks.

The number of people outside the workforce in July increased 144,000 over June’s record when 93,626,000 were not in the workforce. July’s labor force participation rate however remained the the same as June at 62.6 percent. Before last month the labor force participation rate had not been that low since October 1977, when the participation rate was 62.4 percent. Jimmy Carter was president back then.

Now for the women:

According to the BLS, 56,209,000 women aged 16 and older were not participating in the workforce in July, besting April’s record of 56,167,000 women who were neither employed nor had made a specific effort to find work in the four weeks prior. July’s figures represented an uptick of 124,000 over June’s level of 56,085,000 women who were out of the workforce. The civilian labor force also shrank for women last month from 73,547,000 in June to 73,528,000 in July. The labor force participation rate for women, meanwhile, remained the same at 56.7 percent.

Increase the size of the workforce the Jeb Bush way: cut Social Security and make Americans work longer.

Have retirees compete for those minimum wage jobs.

And then cut the minimum wage.

Jeb Bush: Americans need to work harder.

At the depths of the Bush Recession,138 million Americans were working. Now it is 157 million.

We need more jobs.

Where is the republican jobs plan that isn't a tax break for billionaires or cutting regulations that protect our air and water?

There isn't one.

All you liberals really need to get a clue. Obama has created a class of people called the underemployed. And he did that with his genius health plan. Now there are a whole class of people who would love to work more hours because now they are working less than 30 hours per week- all due to Obamacare! Now with regard to social security Jeb said

"I think we need to raise the retirement age, not for people that are already nearing, receiving Social Security, or already on it, but raise it gradually, over a long period of time for people that are just entering the system." He also backed a partial privatization that would allow people to choose private accounts.

Now I am getting both Social Security and 401K withdrawals and I am pulling out 5x from my 401K than I am receiving from Social Security. [Portion removed;keep it civil] what Jeb is proposing will save the social security system and while increasing payments to retirees.

[Portion removed]

Obama did not cause underemployment.

It started with the dubya and the Bush Recession, with consecutive months exceeding 750,000 jobs lost.


How are the 800,000.jobs lost in December 2008 the fault of Barack Obama?

get a clue:

you should. Simply removing the earnings cap on Social Security contributions would solve the problem. No need to raise the retirement age, no need to do any of the other stuff Jeb suggests.

As to your pulling more money out of your 401k than you get in SSI, that's the way the system is designed. SSI isn't meant to be a retirement plan for everyone it's a safety net for those that can't afford 401k's. Socialism? You bet.

It doesn't matter which party is in power, when your country is run by generals, spys, and bankers, your economy will be be based on weapons, spyware, and financial fraud. Good luck with that!

@Adrian

Well put. But sadly our country is run by Clowns and our economy certainly isn't very funny.

After all the back and forth, it all comes down to the Bay Area economy will collapse at this rate, whatever party you follow and whatever philosophy you adhere too. We can't sustain this extreme difference in rich and poor, lack of affordable housing, threats to SSI, etc. Our system will bottom out.

The comments are more entertaining than the debates! I have no love for either the Democrats or the Republicans - they are not, after all, so very different in what they do. How they say it, of course, is very different. My approach is to vote based on the individual, not the party. Are the smart enough? Do they listen? Do they have the courage to change their mind? Do they reflect compassion, ability to lead and build coalitions, a genuine belief in the future of America?

The great thing about America is that we are all free to pontificate on what is right and self-evident. Thanks to the strident voices of Katy H, Get A Clue, Menlo Voter, Estella etc. for sharing their opinions. I and others can judge for ourselves what we believe.

"Hopefully, the next president will lower the corporate tax rate and corporations will repatriate the hundreds of billions of dollars sitting offshore."

But will they repatriate the millions of jobs they've shipped abroad, with the aid of offshoring tax breaks supported by the GOP?

And will they reduce the H1B (sounds like a virus, doesn't it) Visas which which contribute to underemployment of American engineers.

When is the last time the GOP (grifters on parade) did anything positive for American workers that didn't involve taxcuts for the 1%?

They have the house and senate and have yet to introduce a jobs bill.

They lose the senate next year unless they do something positive.

The house is protected by gerrymandered districts. They will sit on teir fat arse and dial for dollars.

Endgame -

"But will they repatriate the millions of jobs they've shipped abroad, with the aid of offshoring tax breaks supported by the GOP?"

Those tax breaks were supported by BOTH parties. Neither party controlled all branches of government during the past 30 years.

Unfortunately, businesses won't repatriate jobs until there is a cost advantage. Companies can build here now. But if consumers buy cheaper products built by competitors with a cost advantage, they won't last long.

Look at the back of your iPhone or the bottom of your laptop computer. Count the number of American cars driving by you on the street. Look at the label inside your shirt or slacks.

You don't need government to help you, you need to think about your own buying decisions.

Carlos: I can't recall the last GOP suggestion that would increase jobs that wasn't a tax cut for the 1%.

Pogo: Dems had control 2008-10, GOP had 2001-2006, iirc. Or 2002.... I'm too lazy to look up the senate defection that gave them control.

I have enjoyed the 'sparring', so thank you. The 1% is my favorite subject. If you make more than $50,000 USD per year, you are the 1%... in the world. Impressive, right. Maybe you are retired and do not make that even with retirement, well if your total value of assets per household is over $500k, you are the 1%. But wait, I can hear it now - you cannot call me 1% because $50k here in the US is not the same as world wide. True, just like the US, it does not factor in cost of living.
Dem., Rep., Ind., whatever, most of the people who comment on this forum are in the 1% worldwide.
Facts are fun, people use them to manipulate a conversation and support their statements, whilst refusing to accept that they same facts may just apply to them as well.

Katy H -

Perhaps I should have been clearer. No single political party controlled the government during the ENTIRE 30 years. Sorry.

"Playing favorite" legislation is consistently passed by BOTH parties.

They may have jobs but they are working fewer hours.

Americans work longer hours than other 1st world countries

Jeb Bush wants you to work more, for no more money.

Katy H does not seem to have her facts correct. The United States rates 12th in the world for average hours worked per week. According to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD)here are the numbers in order:

1. Mexico 2,237
2. South Korea 2,163
3. Greece 2,037
4. Chile 2,015
5. Russia 1,980
6. Poland 1,918
7. Hungary 1.883
8, Estonia 1,868
9. Israel 1,867
10. Turkey 1,832
11.Ireland 1,815
12. USA 1,788

The Mexicans are the hardest working people in the world. We Americans should have the Mexican work ethic.

And of course what Katy said about Jeb is patently false. Jeb wants the people who used to work 40 hours per week before Obamacare and are now working less than 30 hours per week due to the Genius Obama, to be able to work the hours that they were working before. Obama is singularly responsible for creating a whole new class of underemployed people.

No president has demonstrated the talent to create poverty like Obama.

get-a-clue lies: "what Katy said about Jeb is patently false"

Jeb Bush: "It means that people need to work longer hours"

And Millionaire Jeb Bush wants to raise your retirement age.

Jeb Bush: "It means that people need to work longer hours"

Politician and London Bankster (for a DECADE!) Jeb Bush also wants to raise your retirement age AND take away Social Security as an emergency safety net from hard working Americans.

Get-a-clue and Jeb Bush want you to work harder than Mexican peasants (with all due respect to the physical work of the great people of Mexico) - talk about an exceptional nation!

Jeb Bush: "It means that people need to work longer hours"

All you doing physical labor, Jeb and get-a-clue want you to work more than 50 hours a week. Is 60 hours enough? 60 hours for tradesmen and construction. 60 hours for police (five 12 hour shifts ought to be great for ticket revenue!) 60 hours for waiters and dishwashers. 60 hours for daycare. Monday-Friday 12 hour days. Enjoy coming home to the kids! Unless Jeb wants to get rid of child labor laws and put them to work, too!

Jeb Bush: "It means that people need to work longer hours" Kids, too?

Jeb Born-with-a-silver-spoon-in-his-mouth Bush, a POLITICIAN for years, who then went off to work with London banks for a decade, wants to tell American Workers that they do not know how to work hard.

Jeb Bush: "It means that people need to work longer hours"

You haven't worked hard enough for Jeb BUSH.

Jeb Bush: "It means that people need to work longer hours"

Get to WORK! AND STAY THERE!

Jeb Bush: "It means that people need to work longer hours"

Americans work HARD. I work hard. YOU WORK HARD.

Jeb Bush: "It means that people need to work longer hours"

"At least 134 countries have laws setting the maximum length of the work week; the U.S. does not.
In the U.S., 85.8 percent of males and 66.5 percent of females work more than 40 hours per week.
According to the ILO, “Americans work 137 more hours per year than Japanese workers, 260 more hours per year than British workers, and 499 more hours per year than French workers.”
Using data by the U.S. BLS, the average productivity per American worker has increased 400% since 1950. One way to look at that is that it should only take one-quarter the work hours, or 11 hours per week, to afford the same standard of living as a worker in 1950 (or our standard of living should be 4 times higher). Is that the case? Obviously not. Someone is profiting, it’s just not the average American worker."

Millionaire Jeb Bush: "It means that people need to work longer hours"

We need a raise.

Millionaire Jeb Bush: Americans do not work hard enough and "It means that people need to work longer hours"

get-a-clue tells more lies: "No president has demonstrated the talent to create poverty like Obama."

... Obama: 60 consecutive months of job growth to recover from the BUSH recession

... Bush: consecutive months of 750,000 jobs LOST



Turn off Limpbaugh. Turn off Beck. Turn off Michael Savage (nee Wiener.) Turn off Hannity. They are lying to you.

Someone asked: what is the GOP jobs plan? Is there a GOP jobs plan?

Now we know. The GOP jobs plan is:

Jeb Bush: "It means that people need to work longer hours"

Awesome plan. By Millionires, for Billionaires.

Actually: By Millionires like Bush, for the benefit of Billionaires that buy politicians.

And the only plan they have offered.

Obviously the previous poster is suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome. The facts are, according to the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development is that the average American is working 34 hours and 23 minutes/week. Yes the U.S. puts in longer hours than France and Germany and there are a lot of Americans working over 40 hours per week to pull the average up to 34 hours and 23 minutes. However if Obamacare did not create a class of people working less than 30 hours per week then the average may well have been above 40 hours per week.

Americans want to work more hours but Obamacare has put the brakes on that.

Also during the first 5 years of the Obama presidency median household income decreased 4.5 percent — that’s $2,268 per household, or $278 billion in total lost income.

More than 46 million Americans have been on the Food Stamp program for 35 straight months. Official data from the Department of Agriculture (USDA) showed that the food stamp program known as SNAP (Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) grew unprecedentally in terms of both enrollment and spending, from the time Obama took office. The official figure stands at 46 million Americans receiving $76.1 billion yearly. In 2010, the number was at 44 million. In 2009, nearly 39 million people were on the program.

All of get-a-clue's numbers are addressed by Katy H's original post in the chart:

Web Link

Wiki:
September 2008 – 432,000 jobs lost - - - BUSH
October 2008 – 489,000 jobs lost - - - BUSH
November 2008 – 803,000 jobs lost - - - BUSH
December 2008 – 661,000 jobs lost - - - BUSH
January 2009 – 818,000 jobs lost - - - BUSH
February 2009 – 724,000 jobs lost
(Obama first full month in office, GOP promises to stop him)
March 2009 – 799,000 jobs lost
April 2009 – 692,000 jobs lost
May 2009 – 361,000 jobs lost
June 2009 – 482,000 jobs lost

To paraphrase Bill Clinton, the only president with budget surpluses: "It's the (Bush) Recession, stupid."

So get-a-clue wants to frame it as follows:

. . . . facts and history (equal) Bush Syndrome

Okay. Got it.

Never, ever vote for a Bush.

So let's look at get-a-clue's beloved OECD numbers, but not through the single year lens, but for the last 15:

Average annual hours actually worked per worker, USA, 2000 - 2014

2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008 2009 2010 2011 2012 2013 2014
1 836 1 814 1 810 1 800 1 802 1 799 1 800 1 797 1 791 1 767 1 777 1 786 1 789 1 788 1 789

My, my: Obama's numbers are following the decline started by GEORGE BUSH in 2006, 2007, 2008. And Obama had to get America out of the ditch from the 2008 Bush Great Recession.

Source: get-a-clue's holy grail OECD Web Link

ObamaCare didn't start in 2007. OECD says the bottom was in 2009, before ObamaCare took effect (insuring an extra 15 million Americans.) 2009 had the lowest annual hours, yes, at the very depths of the Bush Great Recession.

If you listen to the rightwing fringe lies about ObamaCare, you would think the ACA is destroying jobs. It isn't. We are still recovering from the Bush Great Recession and need to create more jobs through Jobs bills that the GOP won't support, even though John Boenher promised to create jobs.

Ignore the rightwing fringe lies about ObamaCare hurting jobs. Obamacare frees employees from the shackles of employer based insurance, allowing them to start new businesses, go back to school to re-train, etc... ObamaCare has insured millions of Americans. It's all about increasing jobs, and recovering from the Bush Great Recession, not hiding behind some lie about ObamaCare.

Get-a-clue? No... get-a-life.

Never ever vote for a Bush.

Never, ever trust numbers from Fox News.

Vote for American Jobs. Never vote for the GOP.

ObamaCare saves lives:

"In the first three months of this year, the National Center for Health Statistics said, 29 million people were uninsured. That was seven million fewer than the average for 2014, after a reduction of 8.8 million from 2013 to 2014."

15 million Americans now covered. Does not kill jobs. Ignore the lies.

Want to add as many as 1.6 million new jobs?

Want to add as much as a point of GDP growth thru 2017?

End Sequestration, now.

From the CBO, via The Hill: "Reversing sequestration spending caps could create as many as 1.4 million jobs over the next two years, the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office (CBO) said Tuesday."

"The CBO said sequestration relief would also cause the gross domestic product to grow by as much as 0.6 percent in 2016 and as much as 0.4 percent in 2017." Web Link

Republicans are killing jobs in America. Republicans won't even talk about ending this american job killer.

End sequestration now.

Let's get completely out of this mess created under the George W BUSH RECESSION.

Quit lying and falsely blaming Obamacare for the loss of jobs.

Sequestration started in 2013. End the Republican Job Killing Machine.

Jeb Bush still thinks his brother should have invaded Iraq - the worst foreign policy decision in history.

What a fool, er, a Bush.

@Get a Clue,
The two numbers you threw at us, the labor participation rate and the number of people not in the labor force, are alternate statistics cooked up by conservative pundits, when the economy, as measured by traditionally used metrics, started improving during both of Obama's administrations. Both those numbers are "junk statistics" for any kind of year to year comparison, without adjustments for:
* how many people outside the labor force are over 65 and retired ? As the average life expectancy increases, and the baby boom percholates through, this number has grown drastically.
* how many 16-24 year olds are in full time school / college ? High school completion rates have increased since 1978. College enrollment, both in absolute numbers and percentages has grown dramatically from 1978 (the % of 18-24 year olds enrolled in college has almost doubled).
So you're just pumping out a meaningless number since you can't find the news you want in the unemployment and inflation rate numbers.
BTW - Did I forget to tell you that the labor participation rate has flattened in the past Obama year, after a precipitous fall that coincided with the START of W's first term !

@Get a Clue,
Looking at a full picture of Real Median Income data over a long period, rather than zooming in on just the Obama years gives the real picture:
Web Link
The link shows two disastrous crashes in median income during W's years, the second of which has only recently begun to upturn again during the Obama years. There was an upturn in median income during W's time, but most economists credit this to the artificially pumped up housing boom, that violently crashed during W's second term, precipitating the second drop in median income.

But Get a Clue, please keep spewing your Hannity/Limbaugh/O'Reilly garbage statistics for the mentally challenged, so we can keep refuting with real data.

Whatever is going on, there are more homeless people than I have ever seen before in this area, more families doubling up in basic apartments just to make it, and employers cutting hours so they don't have to pay a higher wage and offer benefits to workers. Employers would rather hire 2 or 3 workers part time instead of one full time worker, therefore bypassing the law in a way. What are we to do? What can the average citizen do?

Eva:

"there are more homeless people than I have ever seen before" it started with Reagan cutting budgets in CA in the 60's, putting a lot of troubled on to the streets; he then cut taxes for the rich and cut more services as president/puppet. He raised taxes on the working class 11 times. Our safety net has never recovered, especially with the double whammy of Prop 13 cutting services for Californians even more.

Throw in the Bush Great Recession, with so many families only a paycheck or two away from disaster (see the chart above - months of consecutive job losses caused by the Bush Great Recession.)

"Employers would rather hire 2 or 3 workers part time instead of one full time worker, therefore bypassing the law in a way. What are we to do?"

That's an opinion, not based on facts presented above (see how posters have eviscerated get-a-clue's falsehoods using OECD numbers for both Bush and Obama. Would you rather have 4 part timers working to make you money, or two full-timers who know and love their job?

"What can the average citizen do?"

Register. Vote. Pick a candidate who wants to bring jobs back to America and has a plan that doesn't involve tax cuts for billionaires, and then go work for him/her.

Don't pull a Fiorina and not even vote (she didn't until she decided she should, for some ridiculous reason, be a politician.)

Carly Fiorina is just another failed CEO who wants to send jobs overseas. But she's the best attack dawg that the GOP has, so expect her factless bluster to get a lot of play. Never mind she has never won anything, or Americans have thought her suitable to hold office. She's in it to raise her profile and sell books/give speeches for the easy money.

Ask any the 30,000 HP employees she laid off.

Vote and work for the best interest of Americans, for the homeless for which you are concerned, for working Californians --- never vote Republican.

And never ever vote for a Bush.

I asked if anyone recalled the last time the GOP did something positive for jobs without giveaways to billionsires.

crickets

Grifters On Parade

Scott Walker eztorts 200 grand from the Bucks owner in exchage for a 400 million dollar publicly built stadium.

Small govt at work, my a $$

Santa:

sorry, it was Pat Brown that started emptying the mental institutions. Reagan just carried on with what he started.

As a 60-something native Californian, I am dubious about Menlo Voter's claim that Pat Brown started the dismantling of institutional care for the mentally ill. My strong recollection is that Reagan put the state on that path. It was shocking at the time, and the consequences are now apparent and terrible.

Menlo Voter, where are you getting your information? If my understanding is off, I'd like to know.

skeptical:

something I read years ago. I'll have to do some digging to see if I can find a source. My recollection is that it was done because it was the "humane" thing to do.

From the article linked below:

" The senior Mr. Brown now expresses regret about the way the policy started and ultimately evolved."

Web Link

Menlo Voter, Thanks for the link -- a fascinating history I was unaware of. I guess I'm old enough to remember Reagan's role, but I was too young in the 1950s to be aware of the genesis of the movement to deinstitutionalize the mentally ill.

That said, I've read other investigative reports that lead me to think Reagan's philosophy (or maybe his lack of understanding or concern) regarding the mentally ill made a bad situation (one that mental health professionals were increasingly finding to be a mistake) worse. Here's an interesting article:
Web Link

Well, I guess all threads involving the modern GOP will eventually lead to Reagan.

interesting article. What's more interesting is the fact that democrats have had control of the state for quite some time and could have done something about the problem virtually unfettered by republican input. Sorry, all roads decidely don't lead to Reagan. This one belongs to democrats.

Reagan loved to cut stuff... no need to apologize for Brown.

Reagan also lived giving missiles to Iranians.

Reagan Accomplishments:

1, He was the first Cold War president to preside over eight years of unbroken peace,

2. He ended the Cold War (now Obama has resurrected it through a weak national defence)

3. Brought down the misery index (the sum of the inflation and unemployment rates) from 19.99% under Jimmy Carter to 9.72%

4. 16 Million jobs were created under his presidency.

5. Revitalized a military crippled under Carter. Revived the B-1 bomber that Carter canceled, starting production of the MX missile, and pushing NATO to deploy Pershing missiles in West Germany. Increased defense spending by more than 40%, increased troop levels, and even got much-needed spare parts into the pipeline.

6. Signed the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces (INF) treaty with Mikhail Gorbachev eliminated an entire class of nuclear weapons. He also laid the framework with Gorbachev for the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty (START), which reduced both countries’ arsenals of nuclear weapons.

7. Cut tax rates with the Tax Reform Act of 1986 simplifying the income-tax code by eliminating many tax shelters and reducing the number of deductions and tax brackets.

"Reagan reaffirmed with eloquence the continuing validity and vitality of the American Dream. In this more than in any policies or decisions lie his legacy and enduring claim to greatness."

-George H. Nash

"Scholars and others with a large view of the world will remember him also as a participant in a transnational movement against the excesses of the regulatory/welfare state, whether overtly socialist (as in much of the world) or marginally social-democratic (as in the United States)"

-Alonzo Hamby

"Reagan'sleadership was, above all, a triumph of personality. His eloquence, charm, courage (recall his behavior after the assassination attempt), and remarkable sense of self revived Americans' pride in the presidential office and, by extension, in the nation itself. No president in memory has displayed so healthy an ego, and Reagan's most adamant political opponents concede his fundamental personal decency."

-James Nuechterlein

They should issue a stamp for Ronald Reagan, so every day I could lick his back side and thump his head.

Wow, a reasonable discussion on jobs, morphs to some fascinating links on Reagan and De-Institutionalization, and suddenly the Reagan white-washers come out of the woodwork to defend...

... the CRIMINAL CONSPIRACY that was the Reagan Administration.

No President has had a more criminal administration than Reagan. Over 100 indictments convictions and/or jail terms. Serious felonies, folks.

Reagan should have been impeached. Would have claimed dementia, which, sadly, was probably accurate. Count up the number of post-presidency speeches or appearances without teleprompters.

Reagan gave weapons to IRANIANS, who had recently held Americans hostage. Think that thru as it relates current rightwing noise to the deal to keep nukes away from Iran.

Reagan supported the thugs taking over Nicaragua by running drugs and attacking nuns.

Reagan raised taxes on the middle class over a dozen times, while leaving the tax breaks for millionaires in place.

Reagan had the largest tax hike on the middle class EVER, when he doubled payroll taxes.

Reagan TRIPLED the national debt, from .9 to 2.7T.

After the murder of 255 US Marines in Beirut, Reagan ran away.

Reagan ignored the mentally ill released to the streets (was actually shot by one, and still ignored them) and ignored AIDS as it swept across the country.

The far right fringies love re-writing history for a guy who wouldn't make it through a modern day GOP primary. After all - he signed the bill that gave CA municipal workers the right to collective bargaining.

Masterful invasion of the empire of Grenada, though. Really nailed those 2 dozen Cuban carpenters and showed the world the might of America to crush carpentry worldwide, or at least on little isles no one has ever heard of.....

"the Cold War (now Obama has resurrected it through a weak national defence)"

Whaaaa?!?!?

We quit spending on defense? How much have we saved? Which programs did we cut?

How much did we cut? (do not count the GOP sequestration)

Or are you imagining some weakness against Putin?

You know Putin, right?

"I looked the man in the eye. I found him to be very straight forward and trustworthy and we had a very good dialogue. I was able to get a sense of his soul." - George Bush nwith help from his Russia 'expert' Condi Rice


Or as others say directly to Putin...

"I’m looking into your eyes, and I don’t think you have a soul.'" Joe Biden (and the Biden bashing starts in three, two, one...

While giving away missiles is pretty bad, giving away a county is far worse. Bush had secured a peace in Iraq and had Al Qaeda on the run. Obama arrogantly dismisses ISIS as the JV and he gave away Iraq! The Obama Clinton foreign policy was the most feckless, disingenuous, flaccid foreign policy in the history of our once great nation. And Ms. Clinton wants be be president? I wouldn't hire her a a carnival barker at the Iowa State Fair [portion removed].

get a clue:

seriously you need to get one. Bush secured "peace" in Iraq? Seriously? Define your version of "peace." If I recall correctly, one of Bush's minions said our soldiers would be "met with flowers." Didn't happen did it. Of course that all totally ignores the fact we shouldn't have been in Iraq in the first place. 5000 dead Americans for what?

Just so we're clear I wouldn't elect Hilary either, but you don't get to rewrite history. Iraq was a HUGE mistake in both blood and treasure. I'm betting you're another chickenhawk that's never seen military service. Am I right?

Chickenhawk Bush signed the SOFA in 2008 that required withdrawal in 2011.

Doncha remember the Size 11 Brown Loafer being thrown at him at that press conference?

ISIS is led my ex Iraqi military that we kicked out in 2003.

Bush.

Looks like @GetAclue has his fake numbers and ridiculous opinions shot down yet again. And he never comes back to defend his indefensible garbage, just to post another diatribe about how the President is supposedly weak.

How's this for weak?

Calry Fiorina had no stance on vaccinations, she only has a gyrating dance, offering multiple opinions and flipflopping all over the place. On top of that, she claims she was bullied by a school nurse into giving her daughter the HPV vaccine.

If you can't stand up to her kid's school nurse, how can she stand up to ISIS?

So Strong and Experienced, that Carly!

I doubt she could even win the primary in CA let alone take the state in the general!

“California is wrong on most everything, honestly”

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Obama approached President Bush after the election and asked him to use his "vision" on the SOFA. Bush worked with Obama to give him what he wanted. Foreign Policy magazine said

"[Bush}agreed to a SOFA which far more closely matched Obama’s avowed vision for Iraq — withdrawal of U.S. forces in three years, no permanent bases — than his own. Thanks to this pragmatism, Obama can now work closely with the Iraqi government in managing the drawdown instead of spending his first months in office trying to wriggle out of an unacceptable deal."

So Bush gave Obama what he wanted, Obama and his esteemed Secretary of State with their considerable diplomatic skills turn a stabilized country into an ignominious foreign policy fiasco run by the Junior Varsity ISIS Caliphate and somehow it's Bush's fault? Libs, you have been drinking far too much Kool Aid.

@Get a Clue,
GET A CLUE ! You must have been the guy that wrote W's speech and hung the "Mission Accomplished" banner on the USS Abraham Lincoln, the way you prattle about a "stabilized Iraq". "Stabilization", whatever that that means, with 160K troops on the the ground, plus thousands of contractors doesn't count for beans - the W goal was a functioning Iraq democracy without US boots on the ground. And maybe you forgot the cardinal warning that Colin Powell gave W prior to initiating the war in Iraq - "You break it, you own it !" W still owns the the mess from a historic perspective. The best successors can do is to mitigate the toxic mess the best they can within the tightly constrained parameters W left them.

And the limits to US recourse show. None of the current GOP candidates have the guts to say what they would actually do make things better in Iraq (or Syria, or Iran, etc.) because they know all of the options are "bad" ones, at least for their base.

G.O.P. Is Vague on Using Power Abroad
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@Get a Clue,
* Mr. Obama reduced the misery index to a 55 year low of about 5, from 7.39 at the end of W's term (though the 2008-10 numbers are a little fishy due to deflation, most agree the Misery Index should have been closer to 10 or 11). Does that qualify him for one of your Reagan "attaboys" as well ?
* The U.S. Military buildup under Reagan did precision little except run up debt and provide "big government" employment (which helped with the Misery Index). SDI still hasn't produced a working protection system despite billions spent, and the Soviet Union and satellites fell due to their own internal economic ineptitude, plus falling oil prices.

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clue:

Iraq was "stabilized"????!!!! on what planet? You're just another troll. Good day.

Menlo Voter,

I forgive you obvious ignorance regarding foreign affairs. But Iraq was indeed stabilized and ISIS, while existent in Iraq during the Bush era was impotent. Then something happened.

ISIS took hold and flourished because the Iranian-backed Levant, consisting of Hezbollah in Lebanon, Bashar al-Assad in Syria, and Nuri al-Maliki and his successor, Haidar al Abadi, in Iraq.

This triad of terror was backed by the Shiite Islamic revolutionary regime in Tehran. And the Obama White House has virtually signed onto this alleged regional security apparatus. It is the tacit agreement that Obama has made with Tehran that has not only galvanized ISIS but also made foes out of our former allies. Sunni Arab tribes that sided with the United States during the Bush surge to defeat Al Qaeda in Iraq less than a decade ago are now joining the Sunni extremists of ISIS.

Way to go Obama. The only JV around here is the Obama White House and his brilliant cabinet. If David Halberstam had been alive today an appropriate sequel to "The Best and the Brightest" would be "The Worst and the Incompetent" featuring Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton.

get a clue:

[Portion removed] There was noting "stable" about Iraq. There hasn't been anything "stable" about it since we invaded it. Ask some of the service men and women that were stationed there while it was "stable." You know, the ones that were going to be "met with flowers." Didn't happen, did it? No ISIS wasn't big then, so what? The country wasn't remotely "stable" either. Again, good day. Troll.

ISIS is led by exIraqi military, cut loose by Bush.

Bush and his invasion created ISIS.

Worst decision ever.

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Sorry to burst your bubble village id but ISIS was founded in 1999 by Jordanian radical Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Bill Clinton was president then. Perhaps it was his speech on national television on December 16,1998, when inspired in the oval office by Monica Lewinsky, he said:

"Other countries possess weapons of mass destruction and ballistic missiles. With Saddam, there is one big difference: He has used them. Not once, but repeatedly. Unleashing chemical weapons against Iranian troops during a decade-long war. Not only against soldiers, but against civilians, firing Scud missiles at the citizens of Israel, Saudi Arabia, Bahrain and Iran. And not only against a foreign enemy, but even against his own people, gassing Kurdish civilians in Northern Iraq."

that spurred the creation of ISIS.

@getaclue:

You knew about ISIS in 1999? Wow, you are a genius!

Bush, his invasion and the resulting fiasco created PRESENT DAY ISIS. Happy now?

If Clinton was supposed to know ISIS was so bad, perhaps you can give us a list of the actions against ISIS taken by George Bush. After all, you knew during Bush's entire 8 years that ISIS was bad.

We'll wait for your exhaustive list of Bush speeches and actions against ISIS, since you and Bush both knew in 1999 that ISIS was terrible.

[Part removed. Please make your point without attacking other posters.]

from the New York Times today, on republicans, but also applies to our troll.

They encapsulate it much more elegantly than I....

"So far, the Republican candidates have offered mostly vague, disjointed ideas, mostly on the Mideast and disconnected from a coherent strategy and even sometimes from reality."

As I said....

;-)

"I Am Republican, Hear Me Roar"
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