If congress want to change the law then they can use regular order to propose a bill to make the desired change. What is happening with the shutdown is that a small group of representatives who cannot get their way via a majority vote of the House and the Senate are instead throwing a temper tantrum.

The cost of capitulating to this temper tantrum would be to overturn representative democracy and majority rule.

^^^What Peter said. Shove some pacifiers into those Congressbaby pieholes & get to work!

Ours is a Constitutional Republic. Obamacare has epic proportions. Constitutional Amendments require ratification by 3/4 of the States. The dimensions of Obamacare demand more than a simple majority.

I am thankful that a simple majority in the House of Representatives can force a more critical analysis of the implications of Obamacare.

Silly me. And here I thought the Constitution established the Supreme Court as the ultimate arbiters of what is and isn't constitutional.

Thank you so much for your clarifying that theirs are only another opinion on the matter.

If those opposed to the ACA want a constitutional prohibiting it then they should 'simply' follow the constitutional process:
"Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate."

Instead they are burning down the house in order to save it - stupid, stupid, stupid.

They've tried over 40 times to overturn Obamacare and failed. The Supreme Court has ruled it constitutional. These crybabies in congress need to stop acting like children and get on with the business of governing without holding a gun to the citizens heads. The republicans are making themselves look really bad.

Voters in 2014 will have an opportunity to "out" the villains of their choice.

Interesting commentary:
Web Link

Washington Times, Jack? Really?!??? Isn't that Rev Moon's paper? The Moonies guy?!? Sun Myung Moon Moon?!?!? It's a propaganda piece by the Moonies! Everything packaged in bright RED! "The Washington Times has lost money every year that it has been in business. By 2002, the Unification Church had spent about $1.7 billion subsidizing the Times"

Lost OVER A BILLION Dollars, collected by Moonies!!!!!!! Wow, that's more fiscally irresponsible than even the CA Republican Party!! Now that is really packaging in RED!

Back to ObamaCare:

Romney ran on overturning Obama/Romneycare and LOST. In a LANDSLIDE 332-206.

By FIVE MILLION votes. It's been 30 years since a republican won by 5 million votes.

Mr 47% got only 47%.

Get over it. Y'all lost. Obama will not negotiate with terrorists holding our economy hostage.

After all, only Reagan negotiated with terrorists (Iran contra.)

The longer this goes on, the more the GOP loses, this year and in 2014.

So there is a silver lining, isn't there?

- - - - - - -

ObamaCare is the Law. It IS constitutional. It IS funded. Americans are excited.

It had a huge roll-out this week - I'm sure you heard about it, it was in all the papers (as an example, see papers below).

In all the papers. Just wasn't on Fox, Jackie.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

CONNECTICUT: Health Care Plans Begin: 28,000-Plus Go Online To State Marketplace [Hartford Courant]

GEORGIA: Enrollment Sites Are Swamped On First Day [The Augusta Chronicle]

IDAHO: Idaho Health Exchange Launches With Few Hiccups [Idaho Statesman]

INDIANA: Insurance Marketplace Draws Strong Early Interest [Journal and Courier]

KENTUCKY: Kynect Opens To High Demand [The Courier-Journal] [...]

COLORADO: Heavy Traffic Slows Health Website On Debut Day [The Durango Herald]

FLORIDA: Website Are Overwhelmed As Many Log On, But Optimism Is Voiced [Tampa Bay Times]

ARIZONA: Health Markets Swamped On Day 1 [The Arizona Republic] [...]

ALABAMA: State Insurance Marketplace Swamped With Consumer Interest[The Anniston Star]

SOUTH CAROLINA Health Insurance Website Overwhelmed On First Day [The State] [...]

WISCONSIN: Wis. Residents Flood Exchanges [Stevens Point Journal] [...]

PENNSYLVANIA: A First-Day Rush On Health Care [The Philadelphia Inquirer] [...]

- - - - - - - - - - -

Oct. 2 (Bloomberg) -- Obamacare’s opening day drew millions of consumers to the law’s core insurance exchanges, offering supporters and investors confidence that if the websites can stay up and running, customers will follow.

In New York, officials said their exchange had 2.5 million visitors in its first half hour. California reported as many as 16,000 hits a second. And U.S. officials recorded 2.8 million visitors to the federal website, healthcare. gov .....

Jack, Rand Paul got caught on an open mic, with Turtle McConnell

"PAUL: Do you have a second?

McCONNELL: I'm all wired up here.

PAUL: I just did CNN, and I go over and over again: "We're willing to compromise. We're willing to negotiate." I don't think they've poll-tested "We won't negotiate." I think it's awful for them to say that over and over again. ... I think if we keep on saying we wanted to defund it, we fought for that, but now we're willing to compromise on this, I think—well, I know we don't want to be hear—but we're going to win this, I think."

Rand Paul is so out of it. He thinks the President should be poll-testing, when Americans have already spoken.

Quinnipiac: "American voters oppose 72 - 22 percent Congress shutting down the federal government to block implementation of the Affordable Care Act, or Obamacare, according to a Quinnipiac University national poll released today."

CBS: "Fully 72 percent of Americans disapprove of shutting down the federal government over differences on the Affordable Care Act"

Rand Paul better get his head out of... outta the sand, I mean. Rand just admitted they've given up on the ACA and are looking for a way out.

Stiff principles ya got there, Rand. Almost as good as Ron.

"I think if we keep on saying we wanted to defund it, we fought for that, but now we're willing to compromise on this, I think—well, I know we don't want to be hear—but we're going to win this, I think."

Idiot.

Mr Hickey is incredibly out of the mainstream in California.

" If “we the people” really want Obamacare" - well, funny thing about that, Jack!

We the people re-elected the guy who brought us ObamaCare, and said a resounding NO to the guy who invented Romneycare, but then fought against his own plan.

Romneycare works in Mass, Obamacare will work in America. Until we get off the stick and offer Medicare buy-in for all. That will drive health care costs down to the lower rates enjoyed by other industrialized nations, as well as improve results across the board.

Single Payer - the nest 'repeal and replace'!

"We the people" left the House of Representatives under the control of fiscal conservatives. (234/201)

Yes and the House of Representatives is 1/2 of the Legislative Branch. The other half, the Senate, and the Judicial Branch and the Executive Branch have ALL confirmed the ACA - which was also passed by the House of Representatives.


If the current House of Representatives want to change the law then they can use regular order to propose a bill to make the desired change. What is happening with the shutdown is that a small group of representatives who cannot get their way via a majority vote of the House and the Senate are instead throwing a temper tantrum.

After 40 repeal votes (interrupted only by 30+ abortion votes) all they have left is a tantrum. And the polls show that it sickens Americans to have terrorists hold our economy hostage. Not looking good for 2014.

Why do republicans hate the Constitution and our way of government so much? They laugh at other countries when they do this, and now look who's laughing.

Hey Jack: remember that Mitt's whole theme was repeal, and look how those numbers turned out: 332 - 206.

Landslide compared to "(234/201)"

Jack:

Even if "we the people" left the house in control of republicans, we didn't leave the senate or presidency in the republican's control. For the sake of argument lets say the congress and senate actually vote to defund the ACA, do you honestly think Obama is not going to veto it? Get real. This is an exercise in stupidity by a few cranks that don't get how government works and are actually happy they've shut down the government. They're acting like children and they're doing great harm to our economy. It will be even worse when they AGAIN tie this all to the debt ceiling argument. If it goes like it did last time we will have them to thank for AGAIN getting our country's credit rating downgraded. Not very smart, but I don't expect these few idiots to understand that.

Hold onto your hats folks. It's going to be a bumpy ride.

I wonder how those who claim to revere the Constitution are so comfortable ignoring the Constitution when it impedes their personal agenda.

The ACA is the law of the land - passed by the House of Representatives, passed by the Senate, signed by the President, affirmed by the Supreme Court.

If you want to change the ACA then follow the constitutional process defined by Article 1.

Obama is following the First Rule of Smart Parenting:

Never negotiate with petulant children.

The Constitution did not establish the Supreme Court as the ultimate arbiter. Article III of the Constitution created the federal court system consisting of one Supreme Court and other lower courts.

Congress then passed the Judiciary Act of 1789, which created the Supreme Court, three circuit courts, and 13 district courts- one for each state. However, neither the Constitution nor Congress defined the Supreme Court's power.

In 1800 John Adams lost the Presidential election to Thomas Jefferson. Adams tried to pack the courts with his appointees and was largely successful. However, when Jefferson was sworn in he refused to allow the remainder of Adam's appointments to go through and ordered his Secretary of State Jame Madison to stop the remaining appointments.

One of the Adams' appointments William Marbury went to the Supreme Court to force Jefferson to honor Adam's appointment in the landmark case Marbury vs. Madison.

Chief Justice John Marshall wrote the unanimous Supreme Court Ruling which denied Marbury his judicial appointment but more importantly established Judicial Review. It is Marbury vs. Madison that established the Supreme Court as the ultimate Arbiter not the U.S. Constitution.

Finish your paste...

"Judicial review is now a well settled doctrine. As of 2010, the United States Supreme Court had held 163 Acts of the U.S. Congress unconstitutional."

And OBAMACARE ain't one of them.

Any thoughts, Hank, on the walloping that the best candidate could find (Mittens) took when he decided to run on repealing Obamacare?

Hank: with your status at the GOP, can you confirm this tweet is from Todd 'Legitimate' Akin?

"If it's a legitimate bicameral Congress, the Republican body has ways to shut that whole thing down."

Marbury vs. Madison did not establish that the Supreme Court is the ultimate Arbiter of the U.S. Constitution but rather confirmed that the Supreme Court is the ultimate Arbiter of the U.S. Constitution - a big difference.

Postponing Obamacare for one year, to revisit the serious issues involved, would not be a catastrophe.
All the Randing, and raving about Romney, does not change the fact that a majority of the body which controls the purse-strings of our national government has control of the situation. Those representatives in Congress have provided our President with an opportunity to revisit this poorly thought out program, while preventing a shutdown of government.
President Obama should ask the Senate to present him with a House approved bill which would allow this to happen. He has no reasonable alternative.
The voters in 2014 will decide who stands on the moral high ground.

How many of us commenting here are lucky enough to have health care coverage, so we don't need to use the ACA (for the time being)? I, for one, am incredibly lucky to have fantastic health care. I watched a neighbor almost die last year because he didn't have coverage. Medical bills are the #1 reason for individual bankruptcy. That is a travesty & it's now avoidable. We are now becoming a truly civilized nation.

"would not be a catastrophe."

Unless you're one of the 20-30 million people who will get coverage from it.

"The voters in 2014 will decide who stands on the moral high ground."

Yes. Thank God! "On day three of the partial government shutdown, a new CBS News poll reveals that a large majority of Americans disapprove of the shutdown and more are blaming Republicans than President Obama and the Democrats for it.

Fully 72 percent of Americans disapprove of shutting down the federal government over differences on the Affordable Care Act"

Keep digging, GOP. By Nov 2014, even low info voters in texas will understand who'd standing between them and healthcare:

"The big irony behind the scorched-earth Republican offensive against President Obama’s health care law is that its expansion of coverage to the uninsured would benefit House districts represented by Republicans nearly as much as those represented by Democrats.

This dynamic underscores how thoroughly ideology is trumping interest as Republicans convert the budget and debt showdowns into their Thermopylae for blocking Obamacare. Because so many House Republicans represent districts with low coverage levels, these members are effectively seeking to prevent a substantial flow of federal dollars not only to uninsured individuals in their communities but also to hospitals, doctors, and other providers who now are delivering significant levels of uncompensated care. “This is really an ideological stand—and in American politics, it [eventually] tends to be more about economic self-interest,” says Robert Blendon, a Harvard School of Public Health professor who studies public opinion and health care."

And that's from the conservative National Journal! Web Link

Look at the interactive map "The Uninsured by Congressional District"

Whole lot of red districts that have the worst coverage, and therefore, will benefit the most from ObamaCare.

Funny that.

Wouldn't be offering any of your bombastic blustery bets on 2014, or the demise of Obamacare this time, Hank.

The time for those against the ACA was when it was moving through Congress and in front of the Supreme Court. It is now law and too late. Elections have consequences.

If Republicans truly believe the ACA will be such a disaster (and I don't dispute that), then they shouldn't want to delay it's implementation, they should accelerate it. If it turns out as bad as they think it will, they will win lots of elections after it is implemented.

Both sides have a lot at stake on the success/failure of this law. Only time will tell who was right.

It will take a few votes from Democrat Senators to give Obama a chance to restore essential government operations and re-evaluate Obamacare. I am hopeful, but then, as others will be quick to point out, my specialty is windmills.

Jack: All it will take a clean funding bill, to immediately re-open government and pay the cops who protected the Capitol building yesterday.

Obama does not give in to hostage takers, nor petulant children (no offense meant to real petulant children.)

All it takes is a clean funding bill, or a better grasp of the rules than the teabaggers holding the country hostage:

"Dems have hit on a way to use a “discharge petition,” which forces a House vote if a majority of Representatives signs it, to try to force the issue. ...

But now House Democrats say they have found a previously filed bill to use as a discharge petition — one that would fund the government at sequester levels." Web Link

Time to get back to work.

From Cryin' John Beonher: "We all owe the Capitol Police a debt of gratitude for their work every day; no finer examples of professionalism & bravery." — @SpeakerBoehner

Then GET THESE HEROES THEIR PAYCHECKS!!!

I am not calling the House GOP a bunch of morons.

No need to, when House Republicans are already saying it:

"Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) sharply criticized his fellow House Republicans on Monday, saying it's "moronic" for them to let the government shut down over their opposition to Obamacare and calling them "lemmings with suicide vests."

“They have to be more than just a lemming," he said. "Because jumping to your death is not enough." Web Link

Never give in to terrorists or hostage takers.

What a bunch of smug, slobbering Obama sycophants....

Just what we needed - a healthcare system run by the government with compliance overseen by the IRS. Healthcare personnel asking all kinds of nosy questions about you and your family's everyday lives. Destined to be another bloated bureaucracy whose service under performs and supported by printing more money.

Any comment from those of you in favor of Obamacare about the fact that Obama has arbitrarily exempted some organizations and companies from the healthcare deadlines until after next year's midterm elections? If he cares so much about these employees, why would he do that?

"Healthcare personnel asking all kinds of nosy questions about you and your family's everyday lives."

They're called "health insurance companies". Also called: "doctors". See also: "nurses".

"Any comment from those of you in favor of Obamacare about the fact that Obama has arbitrarily exempted some organizations and companies from the healthcare deadlines until after next year's midterm elections?"

Yes, I'll comment. No big deal. That's all you have?

The individual mandate, which I still object to, along with required auto insurance, is the big deal. It was proposed by right wing think tank Heritage. Supported by Newt Gingrich. Supported by Mitt Romney.

Included in RomneyCare.

Which Massachusetts LOVES.

Ger yourself insured. It's a personal responsibility thing. Apparently not a Republican thing - once Obama adopted it, that is.

Peter,

Judicial Review was established by Marbury vs. Madision. It did not previously exist.

Judicial Review established "the ability of the Supreme Court to limit Congressional power by declaring legislation unconstitutional."

Article 3 Section 2 positively affirms most areas of Supreme Court jurisdiction. However, it did not specifically grant the Supreme Court the the right to declare Congressional legislation unconstitutional. The Supreme Court assumed this right in its famous ruling and neither the Executive Branch or the Legislative Branch formally challenged it.

"would not be a catastrophe." Unless you're one of the 20-30 million people who will get coverage from it.

Many of those 20-30 million do not want coverage, but will get it or else with Obamacare!

AARP, which supported Obamacare, has procured Group insurance rates for it's members for years. Maybe they could form a subsidiary, call it AAUP, for the under-insured?

Is government the solution, or is it the problem?

"President Obama should ask the Senate to present him with a House approved bill which would allow this to happen. He has no reasonable alternative."

Wrong - the President can and must enforce the laws of the land including the ACA. IF Congress wants to change the law then they should proceed in accordance with Article 1 of the Constitution - not engage in a temper tantrum.


As Amanda Marcotte has stated:"Avoid trying to reason with any child who is in the middle of a full-blown tantrum, especially in a public place."

Jack? That's the "replace" part of repeal and replace?????

"Maybe they could form a subsidiary, call it AAUP, for the under-insured?"

Really? Best ya got?

30 million to be insured, but you pawn it off on AARP? Seriously: you DO have NOTHING.

Republicans are showing the world that THEY are the problem.

NYTimes: "The hard-line stance of Republican House members on the government shutdown is generating increasing anger among senior Republican officials, who say the small bloc of conservatives is undermining the party and helping President Obama just as the American people appeared to be losing confidence in him."

Way to go, fellas!

Jeb "Bush’s comments reflect what has become gospel among many Republican professionals: that the language and images projected by the Washington wing of the party are interfering with efforts to modernize."

Modern? Today's GOP? Trying to repeal Obamacare so they can then de-fund Medicare. Trying to get rid of ("privatize") Social Security. Take the tax code back to the Gilded Age, as well as continue to repeal regulations designed to prevent another Great Depression of 1929.

Modernize?

Wow, Jeb. Look the word up!

Modernize: not the word many of us would associate with Hank and Jack.

AARP has brought group insurance rates to retirees, Other non-profit organizations could do the same.
"Obama and Rule", you have given me an idea. I will ask the Sequoia Healthcare District, on whose Board I serve, to advocate for creation or amalgamation of non-profits to negotiate group insurance rates for the under-insured. Charitable contributions could be solicited to underwrite costs for the most needy. Lee Michelson, our CEO, could lend his fundraising expertise to the project.

Good by, Obamacare. We'd rather do it ourselves.

Jack - let us know when you have a nationwide alternative in place including actual funding for the charitable contribution portion and THEN Congress can consider the choice.

Jack, come up with that Repeal and Replace idea at the 19th hole at the Elks course?

30 million Americans - let us know when you're ready. Nearly every industrialized country has come up with a system to get rid of private, for profit, health insurers. Obama failed to go single-payer, and we got stuck with Obama/Romneycare. But it's a plus for 30 million Americans, and oh, the rest of us, too:

- don't forget the pre-existing conditions clause in your plan, Jack

- and ending lifetime and annual caps.

- Keeping 25 year olds on your plan.

- Increased preventative care for women and seniors.

Work all that up on the cocktail napkin for us, Jack. We've waiting for the replace part of repeal and replace for 4 years - who knew Jack had it the whole time?

Rome wasn't built in a day.

With a year to consider alternatives, I think the prognosis is excellent. We could also consider the $200 Billion tobacco industry settlement to mitigate costs related to coverage for pre-existing lung cancer patients.

AARP is nationwide. They could help. They've done it before.

"With a year to consider alternatives"

The only viable alternatives are ones that have the proven, established ability and FUNDING to provide equal or better health care coverage. There is NO way that such alternatives could be ready in a year, if ever.

AARP? According to AARP's 2008 Consolidated financials, it was paid $652,000,000 in royalties from insurance companies that sold products referred by AARP. AARP also received an additional $120,000,000 for the ads placed in its publications

"With a year to consider alternatives"

Too funny. Thanks. Literally laughed out loud! Spit soda on the screen funny!

Where ya been the last 20 years since Hillarycare?

Oddly enough, named after our *next* President.

;)

"AARP is nationwide. They could help. They've done it before."

Wrong - AARP does not provide insurance to a single person except its own employees. "AARP is not an insurer and does not pay insurance claims. Instead, AARP allows its name to be used by insurance companies in the sale of insurance products, for which it is paid a commission like an insurance agent."

I am not a member of AARP, for philosophical reasons.
I knew that they do not provide insurance to their members, but was under the impression that group rates were available to their members. I am a member of the Fun After Fifty Club which meets at the Veterans Memorial Center in Redwood City. Many FAF members also belong to one of two AARP groups which also meet at the VMC.

Jack: ya got nothing. 20 years to help Americans get healthcare, and all the republicans have come up with is "the Fun After Fifty Club" at the Vet Center.

Hank: a message for you from McDermott:

“Dealing with terrorists has taught us some things,” said Washington Rep. Jim McDermott after voting no on one of Thursday’s GOP bills. “You can’t deal with ’em. This mess was created by the Republicans for one purpose, and they lost. People in my district are calling in for Obamacare—affordable health care—in large numbers. These guys have lost, and they can’t figure out how to admit it.” Why would House Democrats give away what the Supreme Court and the 2012 electorate didn’t? “You can’t say, OK, you get half of Obamacare—this isn’t a Solomonic decision,” McDermott said. “So we sit here until they figure out they ******’ lost.”

Web Link

As pointed out above: the best candidate the GOP could find (Mitt)ran on overturning Obamacare and lost in a landslide.

Mittens “******’ lost.”

Does that still bother you and Jack so much? Or are you over it yet?

How does "Many FAF members also belong to one of two AARP groups which also meet at the VMC" relate to your new miracle replacement for ObamaCare?

I really like the comment about you having 20 years since you trashed HillaryCare. Now that looks like the new name of ObamaCare after 2016 and our new president!

excerpted from Public Policy Polling where they show complete polling results:

FROM: Jim Williams, Public Policy Polling
RE: 24 new polls show GOP in grave danger of losing House in wake of government shutdown

If the 2014 elections were held today, Republicans would be in grave danger of losing control of the House of Representatives, according to a series of 24 surveys conducted by Public Policy Polling in Republican-held House districts over the past few days. The surveys challenge the conventional wisdom that gerrymandering has put the House out of reach for Democrats.

Democrats must pick up 17 seats to win control of the House. These poll results make clear that if the election were held today, such a pickup would be well within reach. The districts where a generic Democratic challenger leads prior to any information being provided about the shutdown are:CA-31, CO-06, FL-02, FL-10, FL-13, IA-03, IA-04, IL-13, KY-06, MI-01, MI-07, MI-11, NY-19, OH-14, PA-07, PA-08, WI-07.

The districts where a generic Democratic challenger leads after voters are told the Republican incumbent supported a shutdown are:CA-10, NY-11, NY-23, VA-02. The districts where the incumbent Republican leads in both head-to-head ballot tests are:CA-21, NV-03, OH-06. Unsurprisingly, majorities of respondents in every poll indicated that they "oppose Congress shutting down major activities of the federal government as a way to stop the health care law from being put into place." The snap polls of registered voters were conducted on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday,with sample sizes ranging from 600-700 voters.

Too early to tell if these gross missteps by the tea bag crowd will cost the goppers in 2014, but geez, they gotta be worried by the polling on all this.

On the flip side, the senate map is GOP friendly this time around, again. In 2008, a lot of Dems won, meaning a lot of defense in 2014 by Dems. Same as 2012 (replace the 2006 Dems) but that didn't work out for team red because they ran more tea bagging morons, like Todd "legitimate rape" Akin.

Oh, and 2012 had the dems riding the coattails of a Kenyan born, socialists muslim dude with a funny name.

Should have been a team red sweep, but they're idiots. Mitt Romney?!?!?!?

btw: before the Jack/Hank local tea bag wing try to label PPP as a lefty group, realize they were one of the polling firms that NAILED it for 2012, well before kkkkkkKarl told us that Mitt still had a chance after all was lost. At least it gave Fox a chance to have a camera following Megan upstairs (a definite plus for ratings.)

I am in a pickle. My employer cut my hours from 40 hours per week to 29. Additionally I have been dropped from Company sponsored Health Care coverage. I was paying $270/month and now I am paying $636/ month. So I am making 25% less pay and paying more than twice as much for health insurance.

Th Affordable Care Act is not affordable for me. I know the president did not intend it to make it this way but he is creating a nation of part time workers with higher health care premiums.

(concern t****) "Th Affordable Care Act is not affordable for me."

Then you didn't look in the correct place. Subsidies are available to 400% of the poverty level (4x $11,490.) Web Link

At 29 hours, are you making less than $44K? Of course you are. Check the subsidies. Being in Californai (opposed to states like Texas that turned down money to help their poor) you also have increased Medicaid opportunities. Check it out.

" but he is creating a nation of part time workers "

Funny. The young do not know history. WalMart and the fast food industry have been doing that for decades. Did folks blame Reagan for that in the 80's?

........

" Starting in 2014, Medi-Cal will cover more people under age 65, including people with
disabilities and those with incomes $15,856 or less a year for a single individual and $32,499 or less for a family of four. "

"Those with incomes that are $28,725 or less for a single person and $58,875 or less for a family of four in 2013 may be eligible for those subsidies. For more information,
visit www.CoveredCA.com or call (800) 300-1506. "

[Portion removed. Don't attack other posters.]

For your scenario to come into play, you would have to be over 55 years old, earning over $60,000 from your employer working full time.

Your employer previously valued your work contribution and wanted to retain you and was thus willing to supplement your health insurance to bring it down to a more nominal cost.

But now that universal coverage is available, your company has decided that all of the employees like you are complete commodities that can be replaced by hourly workers without any insurance coverage whatsoever.

Well, here's the bad news for you, cutting your insurance isn't the last thing your employer is going to do to you, they are shortly going to be outsourcing your job because apparently they don't give a hoot about retaining you as an employee.

Doesn't it bother you that you have to lie to make up a case that doesn't work under the ACA?

So Obamacare has created a new class of people who have to apply for a handout to get back to where they were. Wonderful!

Jack: How's Medicare working out?

You were against that in the beginning, weren't you? Like Reagan, calling it socialized medicine? Here's Ronnie getting paid by the AMA in 1961 to speak out about the evils of covering our seniors: Web Link

Jack, if you don't like healthcare insurance companies jacking up their obscene rates, how about Medicare buy-in for all? Why should we pay for office buildings full of folks whose sole job is to try and deny you health coverage?

Why should we pay insurance CEO's millions just to rip us and the government off?

Look at Republican governor Rick Scott - a criminal whose company paid the government 2 billion in fines for ripping America and Americans off:

"Columbia/HCA fraud case details: On March 19, 1997, investigators from the FBI, the Internal Revenue Service and the Department of Health and Human Services served search warrants at Columbia/HCA facilities in El Paso and on dozens of doctors with suspected ties to the company. The Columbia/HCA board of directors pressured Rick Scott to resign as Chairman and CEO following the inquiry. He was PAID $9.88 million in a settlement. He also left owning 10 million shares of stock worth over $350 million. In 1999, Columbia/HCA changed its name back to HCA, Inc.

In settlements reached in 2000 and 2002, Columbia/HCA pled guilty to 14 felonies and agreed to a $600+ million fine in the largest fraud settlement in US history. Columbia/HCA admitted systematically overcharging the government by claiming marketing costs as reimbursable, by striking illegal deals with home care agencies, and by filing false data about use of hospital space. They also admitted fraudulently billing Medicare and other health programs by inflating the seriousness of diagnoses and to giving doctors partnerships in company hospitals as a kickback for the doctors referring patients to HCA. They filed false cost reports, fraudulently billing Medicare for home health care workers, and paid kickbacks in the sale of home health agencies and to doctors to refer patients. In addition, they gave doctors "loans" never intending to be repaid, free rent, free office furniture, and free drugs from hospital pharmacies.

In late 2002, HCA agreed to pay the U.S. government $631 million, plus interest, and pay $17.5 million to state Medicaid agencies, in addition to $250 million paid up to that point to resolve outstanding Medicare expense claims.

In all, civil law suits cost HCA more than $2 billion to settle, by far the largest fraud settlement in US history."

Two BILLION dollars in fines for ripping you and I off. Time to get private, for profit, insurance companies out of our health care. They add so many layers of cost and make America's medical systemt the most expensive in the world, and without providing longer or better lives: look at worlwide infant mortality and life expectancy.

"Based on analysis of OECD health data from 2008, the United States continues to differ markedly from other countries on a number of health system measures. The U.S. has a comparatively low number of hospital beds and physicians per capita, and patients in the U.S. have fewer hospital and physician visits than most other countries.
At the same time, spending per hospital visit is highest in the U.S., and American patients are among the most likely to receive procedures requiring complex technology. The nation now ranks in the bottom quartile in life expectancy among OECD countries and has seen the smallest improvement in this metric over the past 20 years."

Who are these idiots that want to destroy our country with shutdowns?

First it's obamacare, now they don't even use obamacare as an excuse. They quit talking about obamacare a week ago, but the govmint is still shutdown.

Now it's paying the bills congress already approved and they want to default our country. What the ?????? How stupid are they? Obama already agreed to cuts in the republican budget. Now they won't pay those bills.

My 401 is gonna get hit hard. Better buy GOLD now. These morons are going to take us to the brink again.

idiots. have no idea what theyre palying with

complete &&&&&&&& morons

This says it all about GOP gamesmanship:

Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) was quoted last week by Roll Call saying the budget stalemate "isn't some damn game."

National Review quotes Boehner telling GOP members this morning he wants something that "puts points on the board." Web Link

No points John, just do your job, which you told us years ago was to CRETE JOBS.

Liar.

Jack Hickey - You are correct, America is slamming the Republican Party. For context, see the graphs that track changes over the decades, and then focus on the current numbers.

In a word - toilet. Web Link

From the fairly GOP-friendly Gallup (friendly per the 2012 election): Republican Party Favorability Sinks to Record Low --- Falls 10 percentage points from September's 38%

This is a disaster in the making. Like watching a slow motion train wreck. And the democrat party is just sitting there saying: "oh, please, be my guest, go right ahead and destroy yourself"

And jack, any pretense that this is obama's fault went out the door today with the Republican offer. From Ober coasta @ NRO: "Boehner lets 'em keep shutdown in exchange for 6wk DL ext MT @BenjySarlin Labrador says he backs DL increase to continue fight against Ocare
— @robertcostaNRO"

DonnyTrumpcare will bring back the good ol' days:

@hmmm "I watched a neighbor almost die last year because he didn't have coverage. Medical bills are the #1 reason for individual bankruptcy."

Yay!

The GOP is holding off for a couple years kicking off folks - once the headlines start saying again:
- "Insured families forced to file medical bankruptcy and Uninsured folks are dying"
...then the GOP will lose control. By then, Paul Ryan will be off to K Street with all the huge kickbacks from the insurance companies and their CEO's.

Good times, eh, Paul!

Paul Ryan on Trumpcare:

"But we always know you're never going to win a coverage beauty contest when it's free market versus government mandates."

Nice, Paul. Healthcare is vital to not only the physical, mental and emotional health of American families, it is vital for financial health (see all the medical bankruptcies of insured families prior to the ACA.)


But to you, it's a 'beauty contest'. Just don't use that phrase around DonnyTrumpcare...

Trump: "You know, no men are anywhere. And I'm allowed to go in because I'm the owner of the pageant. And therefore I'm inspecting it... Is everyone OK? You know, they're standing there with no clothes. And you see these incredible-looking women. And so I sort of get away with things like that..."

Ivanka: shrugs it off, "Yeah, he does that."

My favorite Trump lie, bought hook line and sinker by the trumpettes...

"You're going to end up with great healthcare for a fraction of the price. And that's going to take place immediately after we go in. Okay? Immediately. Fast Quick."

This.

von Trumpenfurter: "We're gonna come up with a new plan that's going to be better health care for more people at a lesser cost." 1/25/17

Yeah.

Right.

Pasting Trump lies is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Boggling the sheer numbers of lies regarding Trumpcare.


"Everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now."

- Donald Trump, Sept 2015, 60 Minutes.

Obamacare was a foray into socialized medicine. It does not need to be replaced. Just REPEAL it!

Government should step aside and allow a natural continuum of healthcare choices evolve.

"a foray into socialized medicine"

Silly.

Define socialized medicine. Then scan your definition for the "for-profit health insurance companies" that Obamacare supports.

Herb.

Calling Obamacare socialized medicine is as wrong as your previous statements. Obamacare - "Many of those 20-30 million do not want coverage"

Yeah, right. In your fantasy world. Just like elders don't want medicare.

Sheesh!

You really can't expect much from Hickey -- his idea of a healthcare program is to put a collection jar in every 7-11 (one of Ron Paul's more notorious statements during his political career).

But I guess when you buy into libertarian "philosophy," that's what you get.

The poster won't defend his claim of ObamaCare being socialized medicine?

Was hoping to see it.

In broad strokes, the only socialized med in the US is the VA and MCaid. Medicare is single payer. The rest is private.