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Citing privacy concerns, Menlo Park says no to automated license plate readers

Palo Alto's new automated license plate recognition (ALPR) system relies on 20 cameras supplied by Flock Safety, one of which is pictured here. Courtesy city of Palo Alto.

While other local towns, aiming to reduce crime, have opted to install automatic license plate readers and gunshot detection services, the Menlo Park City Council veered in a different direction at its Sept. 26 meeting.

Menlo Park Police Department Chief David Norris said the devices have proved useful in solving crimes from homicides to thefts, and to locate vulnerable missing people, such as elderly dementia sufferers.

Four community members spoke at the meeting of their concerns about data collection practices and oversight with Flock Safety automatic license plate readers (ALPRs). They mentioned problems that ranged from identifying information to the collection of data that could harm someone, such as a visitor coming to California for reproductive care that could result in prosecution in their home state.

Mayor Jen Wolosin said that she hadn’t seen the city do enough outreach to the American Civil Liberties Union, a watchdog organization, and communities of concerned residents.

Norris said that the data was widely not used. Flock ALPRs only use one-tenth of 1% of data collected, and the rest is deleted, he said.

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“I'm also thinking about the cost to civil liberties and privacy that have been expressed by members of our community and the ACLU,” Wolosin said. “If it's such a needle in a haystack, how are we then showing the need for this? (How are we showing) the benefit of this, given the cost to privacy, leaving ourselves more vulnerable to data hacking and whatnot.”

Other local towns, such as Atherton and Woodside, have elected to install Flock ALPRs largely due to concerns about burglaries and thefts.

The Menlo Park council cited the price of deploying Flock cameras, which is not currently in the city budget. The system would cost an initial $284,900 for installation of 36 cameras and then $251,000 annually to lease them. The ongoing cost was hard to stomach when the city is already in a deficit-spending situation.

“This technology, specifically in our community, is so ubiquitous that every day our own license plates are probably read dozens of times,” Council member Drew Combs said.

Combs added that he did not see the value in a large-scale rollout given the ongoing monthly cost of about $20,000.

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The idea was floated to install ALPRs and the accompanying gunshot detection only in areas that experience higher crime rates, but that brought up issues of equity.

Council member Maria Doerr said that she was concerned that focusing cameras and gunshot detection devices on communities that have historically seen higher crime rates could highlight inequity in Menlo Park's neighborhoods. Doing so "doesn't lend itself to being more effective and to being equitable for our community."

Several council members brought up last year's incident of a gunfire exchange on Windermere Avenue in Belle Haven, where a security camera captured footage of the shooting.

Vice Mayor Cecilia Taylor offered the idea of only installing gunshot detection citywide, as gunshots don't just occur in only one area of the city, an idea that the council wanted to explore further.

The council decided not to consider installing ALPRs unless new data proves their efficacy in deterring crime. There was no support for deploying gunshot detection on its own, but city staff will continue to assess the devices and explore CCTV as an option for resident safety.

Cameron Rebosio
 
Cameron Rebosio joined the Almanac in 2022 as the Menlo Park reporter. She previously wrote for the Daily Californian and the Palo Alto Weekly. Read more >>

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Citing privacy concerns, Menlo Park says no to automated license plate readers

by / Almanac

Uploaded: Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 11:16 am

While other local towns, aiming to reduce crime, have opted to install automatic license plate readers and gunshot detection services, the Menlo Park City Council veered in a different direction at its Sept. 26 meeting.

Menlo Park Police Department Chief David Norris said the devices have proved useful in solving crimes from homicides to thefts, and to locate vulnerable missing people, such as elderly dementia sufferers.

Four community members spoke at the meeting of their concerns about data collection practices and oversight with Flock Safety automatic license plate readers (ALPRs). They mentioned problems that ranged from identifying information to the collection of data that could harm someone, such as a visitor coming to California for reproductive care that could result in prosecution in their home state.

Mayor Jen Wolosin said that she hadn’t seen the city do enough outreach to the American Civil Liberties Union, a watchdog organization, and communities of concerned residents.

Norris said that the data was widely not used. Flock ALPRs only use one-tenth of 1% of data collected, and the rest is deleted, he said.

“I'm also thinking about the cost to civil liberties and privacy that have been expressed by members of our community and the ACLU,” Wolosin said. “If it's such a needle in a haystack, how are we then showing the need for this? (How are we showing) the benefit of this, given the cost to privacy, leaving ourselves more vulnerable to data hacking and whatnot.”

Other local towns, such as Atherton and Woodside, have elected to install Flock ALPRs largely due to concerns about burglaries and thefts.

The Menlo Park council cited the price of deploying Flock cameras, which is not currently in the city budget. The system would cost an initial $284,900 for installation of 36 cameras and then $251,000 annually to lease them. The ongoing cost was hard to stomach when the city is already in a deficit-spending situation.

“This technology, specifically in our community, is so ubiquitous that every day our own license plates are probably read dozens of times,” Council member Drew Combs said.

Combs added that he did not see the value in a large-scale rollout given the ongoing monthly cost of about $20,000.

The idea was floated to install ALPRs and the accompanying gunshot detection only in areas that experience higher crime rates, but that brought up issues of equity.

Council member Maria Doerr said that she was concerned that focusing cameras and gunshot detection devices on communities that have historically seen higher crime rates could highlight inequity in Menlo Park's neighborhoods. Doing so "doesn't lend itself to being more effective and to being equitable for our community."

Several council members brought up last year's incident of a gunfire exchange on Windermere Avenue in Belle Haven, where a security camera captured footage of the shooting.

Vice Mayor Cecilia Taylor offered the idea of only installing gunshot detection citywide, as gunshots don't just occur in only one area of the city, an idea that the council wanted to explore further.

The council decided not to consider installing ALPRs unless new data proves their efficacy in deterring crime. There was no support for deploying gunshot detection on its own, but city staff will continue to assess the devices and explore CCTV as an option for resident safety.

Comments

Dawn1234
Registered user
Menlo Park: Belle Haven
on Sep 28, 2023 at 12:16 pm
Dawn1234, Menlo Park: Belle Haven
Registered user
on Sep 28, 2023 at 12:16 pm

I thought this was a well thought out conclusion to reach. Especially appreciated folks highlighting the issues this might cause in privacy invasion for people coming to California for care not available in their states.


Oops
Registered user
Menlo Park: other
on Sep 28, 2023 at 1:18 pm
Oops, Menlo Park: other
Registered user
on Sep 28, 2023 at 1:18 pm

More virtue signaling by a lost council. What is more likely to happen? A: that a burglary ring will strike Menlo Park, or worse a home invasion will occur, and the license plate readers will be used to catch the criminals?

Or B. what the Council is worried about: that the National government will become so facist it will let another state use California state license plate readers, despite the fact abortion is protected by our state constitution, to track residents from another state who come here to seek an abortion.

The latter concern is completely absurd and conspiracy theory stuff.


codydog
Registered user
Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park
on Sep 28, 2023 at 1:40 pm
codydog, Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park
Registered user
on Sep 28, 2023 at 1:40 pm

Our neighborhood just west of downtown experiences nightly trolling by masked and hooded robbers and would-be robbers. Our two cars have been broken into recently. <My neighbors across the street had someone try to enter through their front door twice in the same night. The police told me that people troll our neighborhood nightly looking for unlocked cars and houses. It is only a matter of time before they force their way into someone's house. Our City Council is sadly lacking in the will to protect the citizens of Menlo Park. They should all be voted out at the first opportunity as they clearly serve no useful purpose and often work to oppose their citizens' best interests.


gtspencer
Registered user
Atherton: West of Alameda
on Sep 28, 2023 at 5:40 pm
gtspencer, Atherton: West of Alameda
Registered user
on Sep 28, 2023 at 5:40 pm

Absurd vote out the council. Let’s be equitable with gunshot detection. No wonder officers are leaving Meno Park.


Jr Valencia
Registered user
Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park
on Sep 28, 2023 at 6:55 pm
Jr Valencia , Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park
Registered user
on Sep 28, 2023 at 6:55 pm

I’m disappointed in the decision. I’m guessing council don’t go to Palo Alto, Redwood City, Atherton, or the Sheriff’s jurisdiction, because they all have these cameras. I’m sure the crooks will read this and realize that Menlo Park is the only city in the area that doesn’t have cameras. Now I guess I have to lock my doors since crocks are being welcomed here


Menlo Voter.
Registered user
Menlo Park: other
on Sep 28, 2023 at 9:07 pm
Menlo Voter., Menlo Park: other
Registered user
on Sep 28, 2023 at 9:07 pm

More stupidity from our council. It is well established law that no one has a right to privacy in public. Where are ALPR's used? In public. Therefor, no privacy concerns. More virtue signaling from our out of touch council.


Brian
Registered user
Menlo Park: The Willows
on Sep 28, 2023 at 9:31 pm
Brian, Menlo Park: The Willows
Registered user
on Sep 28, 2023 at 9:31 pm

I agree with not moving forward with License Plate readers for several reasons. "Big Brother" is one of them, we really don't need more observation and surveillance. Most people have Ring cameras and other cameras mounted on their residence. More than that we are already in a budget deficit so we go deeper when there isn't a proven benefit. If I recall Atherton installed several License plate readers and how well is that working out for them? I read articles of more home burglaries but not articles about catching the burglars.

And to Oops I would ask do you know where the data from the cameras is being stored? Some states are proposing trying to criminalize traveling out of state for an abortion. If the company is storing data in that state is it safe? Sad that this needs to be a consideration but it is the times we live in...


kbehroozi
Registered user
Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Sep 28, 2023 at 10:17 pm
kbehroozi, Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
Registered user
on Sep 28, 2023 at 10:17 pm

I don't think this was an easy decision and council members did a ton of due diligence (e.g. talking with other communities using Flock cameras and looking at their data). There was significant concern that the cameras would not be cost-effective. We are running a budget deficit and while there is a lot of respect for the police chief and desire to support him and his team, the sales pitch from Flock was heavy on anecdotes and thin on data. Some other communities are reporting mixed results. Seems like they are good for recovering stolen vehicles but they may not be as effective for deterring (or solving) residential burglaries. They also cost a non-trivial amount of staff time (and I've heard that the cameras in Los Altos Hills aren't always functioning.)

Web Link Web Link


Oops
Registered user
Menlo Park: other
on Sep 29, 2023 at 7:19 am
Oops, Menlo Park: other
Registered user
on Sep 29, 2023 at 7:19 am

Can anyone name one place where license plate reader data from California has been used to prosecute someone in another state, who was seeking an abortion. Are you really suggesting the Chief is going to set up a license plate reader in an abortion provider parking lot? If one is really worried about this extremely low probability scenario, tell the Chief he can’t put a license plate reader within 500 feet of an abortion provider. But to have a statistically irrelevant possibility factor into a public safety decision is irresponsible. Regarding the budget deficit, has the Menlo Park budget gotten so bad that the City of Menlo Park can’t consider public safety steps other cities are taking on the Peninsula?


Betsy Roble
Registered user
Menlo Park: other
on Sep 29, 2023 at 7:51 am
Betsy Roble, Menlo Park: other
Registered user
on Sep 29, 2023 at 7:51 am

Ms. Doerr is surely joking in suggesting that gunshot detectors placed where there are historically more gunshots "highlights inequity". That statement is akin to suggesting that increased police presence in crime areas is bad. Perhaps Ms. Doerr should ask residents affected by gun violence and crime before offering such pretentious opinions.

Abraham Lincoln: "Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt"


pogo
Registered user
Woodside: other
on Sep 29, 2023 at 10:55 am
pogo, Woodside: other
Registered user
on Sep 29, 2023 at 10:55 am

1. There is no expectation of privacy when you are in the public. It is perfectly legal to photograph the license plates of every car you see.

2. Menlo Park is sending a message to burglaries that they won't be tracked in their city. Neighboring cities who have experienced a lot of burglaries offer our thanks.


new guy
Registered user
Menlo Park: Downtown
on Sep 29, 2023 at 11:43 am
new guy, Menlo Park: Downtown
Registered user
on Sep 29, 2023 at 11:43 am

I had long hoped that increased use of surveillance devices would put an end to home crime (ring, etc). But the opposite seems to be true. The annual cost of this "service" is just another masterful case of how these companies prey on unexperienced city/town leaders. With all the talk of how the criminals use stolen cars, I find it of little value to track license plate info.


gtspencer
Registered user
Atherton: West of Alameda
on Sep 29, 2023 at 2:09 pm
gtspencer, Atherton: West of Alameda
Registered user
on Sep 29, 2023 at 2:09 pm

And look Woodside had 5 burglaries yesterday. I’m sure their cameras will help identify the suspects.


Oops
Registered user
Menlo Park: other
on Sep 29, 2023 at 2:26 pm
Oops, Menlo Park: other
Registered user
on Sep 29, 2023 at 2:26 pm

Interesting criticism of the tech. Flock license plate readers recently caught four auto thieves in just one week this year in another city.

Web Link


Jr Valencia
Registered user
Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park
on Sep 29, 2023 at 2:34 pm
Jr Valencia , Menlo Park: Central Menlo Park
Registered user
on Sep 29, 2023 at 2:34 pm

Oops, did you happen to read this article or another Bay Area city that solved 24% of their crimes, not including stolen vehicles with flock? Seems like these cameras would help solved many crimes

Web Link


Joseph E. Davis
Registered user
Woodside: Emerald Hills
on Sep 29, 2023 at 5:19 pm
Joseph E. Davis, Woodside: Emerald Hills
Registered user
on Sep 29, 2023 at 5:19 pm

The Menlo Park City Council is insane.


Brian
Registered user
Menlo Park: The Willows
on Sep 29, 2023 at 7:28 pm
Brian, Menlo Park: The Willows
Registered user
on Sep 29, 2023 at 7:28 pm

"Interesting criticism of the tech. Flock license plate readers recently caught four auto thieves in just one week this year in another city."

I thought the intended purpose was to catch stop home break-ins, not catch stolen cars? And at a cost of nearly $550,000 the first year to catch 4 stolen cars that likely were not worth more than $100,000 combines it sounds like a bad fiscal decision. The council made the right call on this. If you want cameras I recommend getting a Ring doorbell and adding high definition cameras around your house. I know the police would be happy for any footage you can supply to their investigations...


Oops
Registered user
Menlo Park: other
on Sep 29, 2023 at 9:47 pm
Oops, Menlo Park: other
Registered user
on Sep 29, 2023 at 9:47 pm

Statistically it’s amazing we have the City Council that knows more about what works solving crimes than their own Police Chief and all of the other law enforcement agencies and City Councils that surround us.


La Entrada Parent
Registered user
Menlo Park: Sharon Heights
on Sep 30, 2023 at 11:14 am
La Entrada Parent, Menlo Park: Sharon Heights
Registered user
on Sep 30, 2023 at 11:14 am

When is the next election? This city council is ridiculous. And Maria Doerr, who they appointed, we did not elect, is the worst. She cares more about highlighting inequity than keeping our city safe by reducing crime and protecting people. Her concern about highlighting inequity in this case does absolutely nothing towards SOLVING inequity. So there is absolutely no gain for anyone.


gtspencer
Registered user
Atherton: West of Alameda
on Sep 30, 2023 at 12:33 pm
gtspencer, Atherton: West of Alameda
Registered user
on Sep 30, 2023 at 12:33 pm

Brian, ring cameras show grainy picture. I’m sure there are more than 4 success stories with flock. I suggest you can install all the ring cameras you want. Let the rest of us have Flock.


Karl
Registered user
Portola Valley: Westridge
on Oct 3, 2023 at 11:41 am
Karl, Portola Valley: Westridge
Registered user
on Oct 3, 2023 at 11:41 am

The only rights being trampled on are by the Blue fascists in Sacramento, DC...and Menlo Park. When will the madness end?


Karl
Registered user
Portola Valley: Westridge
on Oct 3, 2023 at 11:42 am
Karl, Portola Valley: Westridge
Registered user
on Oct 3, 2023 at 11:42 am

Glock is needed as well as Flock...


Rob Silano
Registered user
Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
on Oct 4, 2023 at 12:11 pm
Rob Silano, Menlo Park: Suburban Park/Lorelei Manor/Flood Park Triangle
Registered user
on Oct 4, 2023 at 12:11 pm

Let’s get back to “ Law and Order”, provide our police agencies with all the tools they need. Have our public safety professionals make the recommendations and our elected representatives support them to make our community safe. Price.. what is the total cost of loss of human life, theft, assault, or any lawlessness. Priceless right council, with your huge tax surplus too.


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